I have been listening to Glenn Beck for the last few weeks, and I must say that I agree with most of what he has to say. For those who have not been listening, or who only believe what they hear in the media, let me briefly summarize what I have heard.
Beck has taken a challenge which Barrack Obama made during the campaign very literally. Barrack issued this challenge in response to a question concerning the fact that he was relatively unknown to the American people. He responded by challenging the American people to check out the people he had surrounded himself with, the people who were advising him.
Beck has accepted the President’s challenge, and the results of the investigation are chilling. Simply stated, Barrack Obama has surrounded himself with a frightening collection of radicals, and they seem to be using Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” to advance their agenda, which is nothing less that a radical reshaping of America.
So far Obama’s defenders have not refuted Beck’s charges. In fact, they have not even attempted to do so. Rather they have launched vicious personal assaults on Beck. Their response reminds me of a truth I learned long ago, “when a person can not refute your argument they generally resort to personal attacks (ad hominem)”.
In his most recent program (8/28/09), he even proposed a plan of action. Beck listed five pledges that every American should demand his Congress Person or Senator to agree to. If not, they should be voted out:
- I believe in a balanced budget and therefore will vote for a freeze on government spending until that goal is realized.
- I believe government should not increase the financial burden on its citizenry during difficult economic times therefore I will oppose all tax increases until our economy has rebounded.
- I believe more than four decades of U.S. dependence on foreign oil is a travesty therefore I will support any energy plan that calls for immediately increasing usage of all domestic resources including nuclear energy, natural gas, and coal as necessary.
- I believe in the sovereignty and security of our country and therefore will support measures to close our borders except for designated immigration points so we will know who is entering and why and will vehemently oppose any measure giving another country, the United Nations, or any other entity, power over U.S. citizens.
- I believe the United States of America is the greatest country on earth and therefore will not apologize for the policies or actions which have served to free more and feed more people around the world than any other nation on the planet.
I think a commitment to these five points is the least we should expect from our elected leaders since they have pledged to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Clearly then, there is much in Glenn Beck’s view of things that I can agree with. However, he said some things in his last program that disturbed me. Glenn Beck is a Mormon, and in his most recent presentation he displayed a certain triumphalism that can be traced to Mormon eschatological views.
Mormons believe in the virtual Divine inspiration of the United States Constitution and they have a very Amero-centric view of things to come. Let me show you what I mean. I will be quoting their own prophets. First, Joseph Smith:
“You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread…. A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America…. [T]he land will be left without a Supreme Government,… [Mormonism] will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart… to stand by the Constitution of the United States…. In these days… God will set up a Kingdom, never to be thrown down…. [T]he whole of America will be made the Zion of God.” Joseph Smith, Jr., May 6, 1843
Now, a few words from Brigham Young:
“Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, ‘The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ It will be so.” – Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
“[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon’ Elders to save it from utter destruction.” — Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
“I expect to see the day when the Elders of Israel will protect and sustain civil and religious liberty and every Constitutional right bequeathed to us by our fathers, and spread these rights abroad in connection with the Gospel for the salvation of all nations. I shall see this whether I live or die.” — Journal of Discourses, v. 11, p. 262
Here’s one from Mormons “prophet,” John Taylor:
“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto… [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours… and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” — Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862
Consider this from Mormon “apostle,” Orson F. Whitney:
“To escape the judgments hanging over the wicked, and find a place where they might worship God unmolested, the Latter-day Saints fled to the Rocky Mountains. Here, and here only, during the temporary isolation sought and found by them in the chambers of “the everlasting hills,” could they hope to be let alone long enough to become strong enough to accomplish their greater destiny. For in that enforced exodus and the rounding of this mountain-girt empire there was more than the surface facts reveal. If tradition can be relied upon, Joseph Smith prophesied that the Elders of Israel would save this Nation in the hour of its extremest peril. At a time when anarchy would threaten the life of the Government, and the Constitution be hanging as by a thread, the maligned and misunderstood “Mormons”—always patriotic, and necessarily so from the very genius of their religion—would stand firm upon Freedom’s rocky ramparts, and as champions of law and order, liberty and justice, call to their aid in the same grand cause kindred [p.61] spirits from every part of the nation and from every corner of the world.
All this preparatory to a mighty movement that would sweep every form of evil from off the face of the land, and build the Zion of God upon the spot consecrated for its erection. This traditional utterance of their martyred Seer is deeply embedded in the heart and hope of the ‘Mormon’ people.” Saturday Night Thoughts, pp. 60-61
I could offer many more similar quotations, but suffice it to say that it is commonly believed among Mormons that there will come a time when the Constitution of the United States will be “hanging by a thread,” and that the Mormon church will save it. This is the unspoken sub-theme in Glenn Becks’ message that concerns me. I am also concerned that he may use his new found notoriety as a recruitment tool for The Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints.
Beck challenges his listeners to bravely follow truth wherever it leads. I would challenge him to do the same. I would challenge Glenn Beck to lay aside the “faith encouraging” books of the LDS church and read the actually early history of his church.
I did this myself a couple of years ago. I spent the better part of six months reading every all sorts of books on the early history of the Mormon church. I read books by Mormo nsand non-Mormons. I read books supportive of the church and those critical of it. It was a fascinating area of study.
Someday I plan to return to my Mormon studies just because it is so interesting. But I must confess that I was more impressed with the Joseph Smith of history than with the Joseph Smith of faith. I can say the same about Brigham Young. In fact, I find Smith among the most interesting American figures of the first half of the 19th century. But in my reading I came to realize that Joseph Smith looked and acted more like Warren Jeffs than Glenn Beck (Glenn’s more a a Parley Pratt), and the various Mormon settlements in Missouri or Nauvoo, Illinois bore a striking resemblance to Warren Jeffs’ polygamist compounds. The same would be true of Brigham Young’s Salt Lake City.
I must confess that I was more impressed with the Joseph Smith of history than with the Joseph Smith of faith. I can say the same about Brigham Young. In fact, I find Smith among the most interesting American figures of the first half of the 19th century. But I came to realize that were I able to go back in time and visit the various Mormon settlements in Missouri or Nauvoo, Illinois, I would be visiting communities just like Warren Jeffs’ polygamist compound outside of Eldorado, Texas. And I have no question that Joseph Smith would have resembled Jeffs far more than he resembles the modern leaders of the Mormon church. The same would be true of Brigham Young’s Salt Lake City.
Most Mormons I have known, like Beck, are very intelligent, except when it comes to critically evaluating their religion. This they refuse to do and I am constantly amazed by their lack of intellectual rigor in this area. Plato said that an unexamined life is not worth living. I have an adaptation of that statement: An unexamined faith is not worth believing. While Thomas Jefferson and I reach different conclusion, I agree with a state Glenn Beck himself quoted on a recent program:
“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
So here is my challenge to Beck; Dare to ask the same questions of your faith that you ask of government. I would suggest you start by reading the Book, The Mormon Murders, by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith.
Wow, this is GREAT. I too am a strong Beck fan, been listening him on the radio and his t.v. show when I can. And I agree with him on just about everything. I am not Mormon and I have to tell you Mark that I too recently have been delving into the history of Mormonism. I only had a “basic” knowledge about how Joseph Smith came to be the prophet, the “golden tablets,” that were supposedly from the angel Moroni, that Joseph is God’s mouthpiece on earth. Then I read “The God Makers” which is really revealing. True Mormons believe that all other religions, including all Christian religions/groups are all false, since God allegedly told Smith that they’re all wrong and so his destiny was to proclaim the “true gospel” which is Mormonism. That’s quite a simplified explanation I can give.
I was very, very saddened a few months ago when I acccidently found out that Glenn converted to Mormonism. (I am a born again Christian, FYI). Glenn is very intelligent, and I’m been prayerful that his eyes be open and that he thoroughly study the history of his church. As he always says on air, “trust, but verify.” I hope he does this and studies the church history, especially learning everything he can about Joseph Smith.
By: Lynn R on August 30, 2009
at 6:53 pm
I listen to Beck often. He is at his best when he and his assistants get “Voltaire”.
There are too many book commercials. “Read this (my) book” sounds like my Mom talking about sex, God rest her soul.
Can,t you read from your book, Glen? Can’t you tell us you thoughts without lossing it in a thigh slapping tirade??
I have heard so many gold commercials I check my fillings in the morning to make sure they are still there. I check my windshields every morning for cracks and chips.
As for our political parties calling each other Nazis, the Republicans and Democrats don’t know what Nazi is. We have to be laughed at overseas in Europe.
Ask a German or an Austrian what it was like to greet each other, “Heil Hitler” or face banishment to a camp or the Western Front.
Ask a Jew what is Nazi? Thus was Israel!
As for President Obama, the Republicans offered up McCain. That equated to four more years of Bush. Thus we have four to eight years of President Obama.
Are we hoping for the second “Night of the Long Knives?
The US government has three parts. Get those law suits churning and make the Supreme Court do their job.
When are we going to leave the Arabs and the Afghans alone? Are we after terrorists or poppy crops?
Why does a western power think it can change 10,000 years of culture?
Why does western cultures think they can change the climate which began with God and the Big Bang? We are so arrogant. May God oversee our stupid thoughts.
As far as our enemies are concerned, the US has the trained people to do the dirty work. However, due to the US attorney not minding his business, well, the ones who give up life and liberty the most to do the dirty work are lying low.
When they lie low, the rats play. Next thing is a Manhattan surprise and dances on the rooftops.
Our enemies know we are weak.
Glen just needs to pace himself. The material is out there. It is not all President Obama.
He needs to read a book, Collateral Damage for a start.
I’m sounding like my mother.
Patriotism does not equal five more years in the Arab back yard. Did we forget how to buy petroleum?
Patriotism equals The Constitution; Seven articles and a Bill of Rights. The rights were granted to us by the southern States, not the Yankees.
The Yankees didn’t want us to have Rites. The southerns knew better and they had the slaves.
Life is ironic. The Constitution was signed over the compromise of the Bill of Rights.
Indian slaves were swapped out for Africans in Central and South America under the Catholic Church. The Church was disappointed at the conquerors. Don’t here about that.
So what use are you, Glen? You sound the bell every day at 0900 hrs. Can you get past the President?
You have to get Past the President. There are very cold winters ahead with very short summers.
The sunspot activity is zero since July 12, 2009. The Cleansing has started.
Some call it Judgment. I think God knows best. He is looking for the righteous.
Glen, Do you know what is coming?
For now, focus on the Bill of Rights!
Cap and trade will be the downfall of the EPA. That is material for later.
The Bill of Rites must stay in place if we are to be a nation of all people.
Glen, please keep moving forward. Your dancing on old floors.
Paul Pierett
Let be unto Ceasar…
By: paul pierett on August 30, 2009
at 8:11 pm
Paul, tell me what you really think.
One small point. I agree with you on calling people Nazi’s. It’s the logical fallacy known as reductio ad Hilterum. However, a person, or a culture, can be into facism or even national socialism without going in exactly the same direction or taking it to the extremes Hilter and the Reich took it.
As for the rest of you post…too much. It would take me a week to respond to it all….so I think I will let you have the last work. Thanks for your contribution. By the way, a lot of what you said is better addressed to Glenn Beck. Perhaps you should repost this on his website, http://www.glennbeck.com
By: markcarlton on August 30, 2009
at 8:47 pm
Lynn, I am glad you were not drawn into Mormonism. It really doesn’t take much to avoid it. Reading a little history will do.
Let me recommend a couple of books you might check out, No Man Knows My Story: The Life of Joseph Smith, by Fawn Brodie. Mormons don’t like it. In fact, it got Bodie — a Mormon at the time she wrote it — into big trouble. The Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows, by Will Bagely, is another good read. I have already mention The Mormon Murders. This book gives you a good picture of the state of the modern Church…as well as the state of Utah.
There are other books I’ve read too, several of them far more friendly to Mormonism than these, this is only to be expected since they are written by practicing Mormons, but these two are a good places to start. I started my study by reading these books and then branched out. Now, every time I go into Amazon.com I get a whole list of new suggestions. *sigh* So many good books to read, so little time.
By: markcarlton on August 30, 2009
at 8:52 pm
Hi Pastor Mark,
I think one very important aspect of mormonisms success is being over-looked. People who are getting what they desire often do not investigate the source of giving and thereby propagate evil by ignorance.
The mormon church gets several things very right. The church is largely a self contained entity, what I mean here is that the members do business with each other whenever possible. This is highly encouraged by the church and possibly even rewarded.
The mormon church community provides social programs (not unlike our governments entitlement programs) for members who are suffering. It is not unusual for an entire mormon congregation to help a member materially and financially to the point of making house and other payments. When the church is actively helping someone meet their needs, they are less likely to delve into the doctrine or history of their benefactor. Not biting the hand that feeds you no matter how evil that hand is.
Lastly the mormon church has made a significant change which is the adoption of the King James version of the Bible in addition to the book of mormon. The members are taught to believe that they are followers of Jesus Christ. There are many “Christians” who would consider mormonism a denomination of Christianity. Unfortunately the Jesus that the mormons believe is the spiritual brother of satan, and a created being. Born again Christians believe that Jesus was and is and is to come, which is to say he has always been and exists equally with the Father as part of the Holy Trinity. A very different Jesus from the mormons.
Anyway the way the mormon church supports its members, the clean living aspect coupled with the belief that they are truly followers of Jesus allows the members to overlook or even completely ignore some very disturbing aspects of mormon doctrine and belief.
By: billstoke on August 31, 2009
at 6:54 am
Bill, this is a very good post. The Mormons do indeed do a number of things well. In fact, the care they take of one another is something we all should do. Let me piggy-back on your thoughts and share a few of my own.
A number of years ago a Mormon missionary — one of those elders too young to shave — talked about the blessing his family had enjoyed as a result of tithing and sharing and used this a proof of the correctness of LDS doctrine. The following was my answer to him.
As there are natural laws, so also there are spiritual laws. Both have temporal reward and consequences built into them. Those who heed them will enjoy reward; those who disregard them will experience the consequences.
Take the Law of Gravity as and example. Let’s imagine two men come to the edge of the Grand Canyon. One believes in the law of gravity so he stays behind the rail and enjoys the view. The other doesn’t believe in the Law of Gravity and decides he wants to walk to the other side. So he steps out and starts across. His remains would soon need to be scrapped off of the rocks at the bottom of the canyon.
Spiritual laws are like this too. For example, in scripture God gives us financial instruction. Those who follow this instruction, believer or non-believer, by accident or on purpose, will be blessed. Those who disregard this instruction will suffer the built in consequences.
To their credit, Mormons follow many of the precepts of the word of God, tithing and charitable giving, for example . It is not surprising, then, that they would enjoy the temporal blessing that comes from heeding the word of the God. The same can be said of Christians, Jews, Muslims or even atheists who do the same thing. This is an observable human phenomenon. In fact, it has even become a truism: What comes around goes around. My mother used to quote another extra-Biblical proverb about this phenomenon: There was a man — some thought him mad — the more he gave the more he had.
Unfortunately many Mormons (and others) make a twofold error as they enjoy the temporal blessing that come with obedience to the divine standard:
1.) They assume that the temporal blessing they enjoy are unique to their sect and proof of its truth claims. The fact is that everyone, even those who are a part of no sect at all, will enjoy similar blessing if they follow the same Biblical principles.
2. They assume that the temporal blessing enjoyed as a result of good works is proof that God is pleased with them and that all is well with their soul. In other words, they assume that their good works have or are saving them. This is a potentially deadly error since it ignores the other side of the ledger, the side that contains their sin. But the same Word of God which enjoins us to practice good works also warns us that things cannot be atoned for with our good works (Ephesians 2:9). In other words, obedience to Biblical principles will bring temporal blessings to all, believers and non-believer alike; but only faith in Jesus Christ can bring salvation to our souls (Ephesians 2:8).
By: markcarlton on August 31, 2009
at 1:20 pm
Mark,
I know enough about Mormons to compare them to any strict religious faction of the Christian faith.
I attended meetings with them and they finished all meetings with a membership drive. The process is used by most evangelical churches.
There are leadership levels in all church groups. My brief experience with many of them is until one pledges membership, upward mobility is stopped. You can always attend! But you are not a member.
As the sales pitch goes, “Membership has its privileges.”
Glen freely states he is a Mormon. I was in fellowship for a short time in the late 70s with a Mormon lady, however, again membership has its privileges and I was replaced with a Mormon male. At who’s direction, I don’t know. It could have been just hormones. It was quick though..
I had to choose more than once to drop a Catholic woman as a dating partner 30 years ago for marriage would have been a mess of non-acceptance here and there until I accepted the Pope as the Vicar of Christ.
If we took everything to extremes, anytime a church dominates a government persecution of non-members or non-believers has taken place.
That is why there is a separation of church and state here in the USA. The Constitution was set up to protect the USA, not churches.
Churches are free to roam and set up shop, but from time to time, churches have lost their autonomy in their geographical area..
Over the last 400 year, The Catholic Church dominated Spanish speaking areas and countries.
The Mormons dominate Utah.
Between the Ohio River and the Florida Panhandle, a Bastion of Holiness Churches and Baptist Churches form a hold on the people. They dictate cable TV contracts and Booze and Beer sales through their members who sit on city councils.
In all cases,they have slowly lost their grip.
I would not want one of them to rule over me.
I have lived through this for 60 years. People today didn’t see what I saw and, thus, let me give a run down of what is to be expected.
In all cases, the controlling church would put a stop to my studies and writings. As they gained and took control, marriage partners would be picked as I have seen numerous times.
Some type of hierarchy of church jobs and non-church jobs would be set in place.
The bottom line is if any church were to dominate the US, they would form some type of New Jewish structure based on the Old Testament.
The Bill of Rights would be discarded.
If Glen is pushing Mormon doctrine, he is paying “for profit” taxes. He is not hiding behind a church charter or non-profit license.
He is using the Bill of Rights to express his opnion which, based on your research, is peppered with Mormonism.
Is that wrong?
I don’t think so.
Protestants feared a Roman Catjholic in the White House. JFK kept the two separated.
If a Mormon took the White House, Utah better be the last state he or she visits.
Our biggest worry now should be…food.
I do hope I caught most of the grammar and spelling errors.
Paul
By: paul pierett on September 2, 2009
at 7:12 am
Hi Paul, Don’t worry about the spelling and grammar errors. I don’t (obviously). Seriously, this is part of blogging. As to your post…WOW…it would certainly be easier to respond to you if you hit just one or two subjects at a time. Put away the scatter gun, my friend
) But since I have a little time here at the beginning of the day I will do the best I can do.
Let me start by addressing your thoughts on separation of church and state. I agree with much of what you said, but there are a few things I disagree with. First, the idea of the separation of church and state originated, not among free thinkers, but among one of the groups you have a little trouble with, the Baptists. Further, if you study the history of the first amendment you will find that it was indeed intended to protect the churches (and religious people) from FEDERAL government.
The primary purpose of the first amendment was to preclude the establishment of a state church as existed (and still exists) in many European countries. Originally it was only seen as a restriction on the Federal government. I note, for example, that at the time it was ratified several states had state churches and these state churches were not seen as violations of the first amendment. In fact, a number of of these state churches were maintained years after ratification. But let me be clear, I do not believe that it has never been good for the church to get its hands on the levers of political power.
Jesus said, “render onto Caesar the things that are Caesars,” not, “become Caesar.” Whenever the church has become Caesar it has been bad for society and even worse for the church. But let me hasten to add that the twentieth century has taught us that secular governments are not a panacea either. Perhaps the most dangerous notion that ever entered the human mind was the dream of Utopia. Whether led from the right or the left, by the religious or non-believer, the human race’s attempts at creating a Utopia have always ended up in tyranny. However, I do believe that in a country such as ours it is the responsibility of all citizens, including religious people, to become informed participants in the political process and to seek to have their values represented in the laws of the land.
Any societies institutions, values and morals are going to reflect the prevailing religious world view. This is particularly so in a culture as religious as our’s is and has been. Anthropology and sociology have demonstrated that the prevailing “cult” produces the cult-ure. We just happen to live in a country that was shaped by the Judeo/Christian world view. This was true when the Constitution and Bill of rights were produced, and –though quickly fading — it is still true today. Recognizing this, liberal justice William O. Douglas, wrote: “We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.”
Given the fact that any culture will produce institutions and laws that reflect its religious based value system it should not surprise us to the these views reflected in its societal norms, laws, manners and morals. For example, in a state as religiously homogeneous as Utah it would be a surprise if the values of the Mormon Church were not reflected in the culture. Were such an anomaly to occur we would have to assume that some state enforced tyranny had been imposed on the majority by an unelected elite.
But what I were living Utah? Would I find the values of the majority offensive? Certainly. But if I were determined to make my home there I guess I would have to accept my minority status. After all, it would be unrealistic to expect the majority to change their culture to accommodate me and it would be tyranny if they were forced to do so.
Now let me start to wrap this thing up. You said:
Here in the United States, in arguably the most Christian country the world has ever know, “a New Jewish structure based on the Old Testament,” was not produced. Nor were “the Bill of Rights…discarded.” On the contrary! It was in a predominantly Christian culture that the Bill of Rights were oroduced. More than this, those religious people invented something we take for granted these days, the free world. What’s more, in the culture created by these religious people you and I have been free to pursue our studies and write whatever we want to write. It is here that you and I may find some common ground; we both see these things being threatened.
You wrote:
I agree, and I have not problem with him pushing Mormon doctrine. But it is not my position that he is pushing Mormon doctrine That would be too strong. Nor do I think there would be anything wrong with it if he did, as long as he was upfront about it. My view is that his Mormon beliefs inform his analysis, probably in ways he himself is not even aware of. Some of this is fine, but there are some things that I hope my readers will be aware of. There is a great deal of good meat in what Glenn is saying (I personally agree with most of what he has to say), but there are a few bones. My post was intended to say: “Enjoy the meat but beware of the bones,” or to use you imagery: “The meats very good, but you may want to scrape off the pepper before you swallow it.”
By: markcarlton on September 2, 2009
at 2:36 pm
Mark,
The only part I really disagree with is, if a church were to dominate the USA, they would discard the Bill of Rights. They would be like an Old Testament Jewish State. Civil Rights would be out the door.
I base this not on our watered down valued society of today. I’ve seen it over the five and half decades of churh attendance.
They enjoy the Bill of Rights for it protects them. But if the Bill were in the way, away it would go.
Check the history. Where ever the church ruled in the colonies, non-believers and those who did not conformed were killed or abused or forced to leave the community. If one left the community, one was on their own in the wilderness.
Paul Pierett
By: Paul Pierett on September 7, 2009
at 4:11 am
Paul, I’m not sure we disagree. The only theocracy I’m in favor of is the one over which Jesus will rule after his return. In the meantime I do not think God intends the church to exercise civil power. It would be bad for the culture and worse for the church. You are right, history has taught us this (But then again, the human race in general has not shown itself especially adept at self governance). If any church would take over I might find myself joining you in the wilderness.
By: mark carlton on September 7, 2009
at 10:08 pm
Glenn Beck pushing Mormon doctrine? I couldn’t even tell he is a mormon. I know he gave interviews to Tim Lahaye with his “left behind” series, and also Deepak Chopra. He didn’t blow a fuse with either of them like he sometimes does. I tend to doubt that he spends alot of time in the bible, but he does read about politics and American history.
It’s so annoying when liberals lecture us about the separation of church and state, as if Christians and Christian values should be excluded from government. It shows such a blinding ignorance about American history and values. The separation of church and state is of course an institutional separation, meaning government doesn’t control or run churches and church entities, and also no single church has direct control or power over the government. Of course people go to churches , and in a democracy they are supposed to have influence, which is the way it should be. The idea that something like “God bless America”, violates the separation of church and state is absurd.
The separation of church and state is a wonderful thing, especially since Jesus and the prophets were persecuted and martyred by corrupt religious authorities. The separation not only preserves people’s free will to believe what they want, but protects the voices of truth within Christianity itself, who often find themselves at odds with mainstream trends.
By: Cupofwrath.com on September 8, 2009
at 1:37 am
The term “Separation of Church and State” is not in our Constitution, it was written in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Babtists. The current debate is so far removed from the original meaning of this letter as to be unidentifiable. Below is the text of the Jefferson letter, it is important ro read the letter to understand the context in which Jefferson was indexing, He said that the legislature should
“make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State”
The current no in God we Trust, no nativity settings on government property, no prayer in school is exactly opposite of what Jefferson was saying to the Babtists. You see satan is a false reasoner and he has twisted the meaning of the letter to the Danbury Babtists to the point that most Americans believe that the separation of Church and State is in the Constitution when in fact it is NOT!
Text of Jeffersons letter for your reading enjoyment.
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and, in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect,
[Jefferson first wrote: "confining myself therefore to the duties of my station, which are merely temporal, be assured that your religious rights shall never be infringed by any act of mine and that." These lines he crossed out and then wrote: "concurring with"; having crossed out these two words, he wrote: "Adhering to this great act of national legislation in behalf of the rights of conscience"; next he crossed out these words and wrote: "Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience I shall see with friendly dispositions the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced that he has no natural rights in opposition to his social duties."]
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & the Danbury Baptist [your religious] association assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
By: Bill Stoke on September 10, 2009
at 2:36 pm
I am surprised that an obviously very intelligent man like Mr Beck can believe in an obviously false doctrine like Mormonism.May the good Lord reveal Himself to him.
Tunji
By: tunji on September 16, 2009
at 7:34 pm